Thunderbird, ram and maturity

by Karanbir Singh Email

Over the last few months, I've started using my proper laptop a lot more, and at work as the exclusive desktop interface and moved the 'Desktop' into a VM host. The only issue being that while the Desktop had 8G of ram, the laptop has 'only' 1G. And my email client of choice, Thunderbird is not happy. I've been running the nightly builds for a long time ( almost 6 months ), and that really needs about 2G of ram for itself ( on a i386 machine, with my email load ). You can see how that's going to be Fail on the laptop with a Gig of ram, and I *do* intend to run other things on there along with my email client. Like *drumroll* Firefox */drumroll*. And about a dozen ssh client instances in gnome-terminal, pidgin, a desktop wiki, and the usual normal things that people do.

First thing that I considered was - it used to not be this ram hungry in the older days, so lets try and older build. Out came the tarballs for thunderbird-1.0, build and install. Works. However, its not really that much better on ram consumption. Hitting 600M of usage after a few hours. However, more irritating than that is that IMAP support in Thunderbird has improved by leaps and bounds over the last few years, and I've grown used to those. So much so that I kept getting thunderbird-1 into a state where we were fighting again. Not a good sign that.

Next thing to consider was moving to another email client. Just to see what the options really are. It wasent pretty. Evolution is unable to handle either the quantity of email I receive or be reliable enough to make it through a day without crashing on me a few times. Imap support is mostly ok. However, the UI and the way things work is still the same non-intuitive and cumbersome interface only a mother or outlook users would love.

Claws on the other hand has almost nonexistant imap support. While using it, I kept thinking the 1990's were just around the corner, peering over my shoulder and would attack me any minute! Dont get me wrong, on the Nokia n810 I *love* claws, it actually makes the nokia an extremely potent communication platform. On the desktop though, it just feels clunky and keeps getting in the way ( maybe its just me and my way of thinking, expecting it to work a lot faster than its able to ). And where is that IDLE support ? Even some of the basic things, like using a 3 pane wide-view layout ( I have a 1680x1050 display on the laptop ) are hard to get right, and after fighting it for almost 2 days and getting irritated many times, decided to give up on Claws.

Mutt and Alpine are both options, good ones. However I've been unable to get either Mutt or Alpine playing well with server-side mail filtering and even getting reasonable report-views on state of folders on a remote end. With Alpine there seems to be a way, but sitting and adding manually, dozens of folders and having it manually manage each one is quite a pain. Added to that is that while I am ok to use Mutt as a backup or a use-in-a-hurry type mail client, I'd really like to be able to just use a GUI based client for most things. Mutt can perhaps come very very close to replacing it, if I can get the mutt-sidebar working ( have completely and totally failed for me ). If nothing else works, I might revisit that and see if anything can be done to make it not segfault on load.

Kmail is another option, slightly made more attractive with the built in sieve support in addition to the local maildir stores. But having used it in anger, I didnt like the way it laysout emails or how it handles multiple ID's per mailbox, in the past. Perhaps its time to revisit Kmail again.

Balsa is another option that I considered and its not half bad a client, but I think a bit basic for my needs.

Anyway, for the time being, its back to thunderbird and nightly. And a 4G swap partition. Atleast this way I get enough time to get up and refill Tea / Water / Coffee mug everytime I start reading emails :) I just feel that thunderbird as a client is really at the best place that email can be at the moment, its matured quite nicely and with the new development features for Tbird3, its only getting better. Now they just need to see if perhaps moving from the mbox storage format is an option, specially for people who get lots of emails that can be quite a winning development. Now, if only they would stop wasting time with 'tabs' in a mail client! Wtf is that about anyway ? I've not come across a single use case where I'd want to be running tabs while 'doing' email!

Are there any other major email clients on linux that come 'recommended' ? No 'telnet' does not count as a mail client.

- KB

20 comments

Comment from: OpenFred [Visitor]
Have you tried Sylpheed ?
http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/

Seems to be as simple as Thunderbird, and really consumes less resources.

Seems to be similar to Claws, in a way...

Fred
14/Aug/2009 @ 08:06
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Hi Fred,

yes, I've looked at Sylpheed many years back and its essentially a single branch from Claws these days. Is it different enough these days to really be a different email client ? Based on a cursory look, Claws seems to be much further down the development lifecycle
14/Aug/2009 @ 08:25
Comment from: Nils Breunese [Visitor] · http://www.breun.nl/
I'd just buy some more RAM for the laptop and be done with it. :o)
14/Aug/2009 @ 09:15
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Nils,

prolly do that at some stage... This one needs a specific ram type which isnt the most economical at this time. I guess will just need to save up and get a new laptop at some point. But I still want my email to work, and 1G should be reasonable to use for a email/web device
14/Aug/2009 @ 09:30
Comment from: Phil [Visitor]
Compacting folders may help.

A look on bugzilla and contributing to one or more of the following bugs might be productive, too:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=thunderbird+memory
14/Aug/2009 @ 09:47
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Phil,

Compacting folders hasn't helped much. I've got about 18G in ~/.thunderbird at the moment.

- KB
14/Aug/2009 @ 10:04
Comment from: Brian [Visitor] · http://directedge.us
I too am a fan of Thunderbird, but the client-side email client seems to be coming to an end. The die-hards will never move away from pine or mutt, and the rest of the techies seem to be moving towards web interfaces like gmail. Everyone else has accepted that Outlook is not going away, and have learned to live with it (excel at using it even -- it's actually not bad once you get to know it)

-orev
14/Aug/2009 @ 10:07
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Brian,

I've not had to use outlook in about 5 years now. And from what I hear and remember about it - all movement has been along a horizontal development line rather than real improvements :). I might be wrong, but am fortunate that it does not work on CentOS!

14/Aug/2009 @ 10:10
Comment from: Kenneth [Visitor]
You may be able to try the mail client within Opera. It is from what I have heard very lightweight and complete.
14/Aug/2009 @ 15:44
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Kenneth, The opera mail client is quite basic. I wont even go to the extent of calling it a proper email client, its the sort of thing one might use as a substitute for a webmail client where there is a low daily input of emails
14/Aug/2009 @ 16:24
Comment from: Ashish SHUKLA [Visitor] Email · http://762e5e74.wordpress.com/
You probably have to boot another OS for this MUA. Gnus ( http://www.gnus.org/ ) is what I'm talking about. Configuring it is a bit pain, but it is the most flexible MUA, the people of Earth will ever come across..:)

I'm not sure about its IMAP support, as I don't use that. Wanderlust ( http://www.gohome.org/wl/ ) is another Emacs based MUA, which has good IMAP support, as I've seen on #emacs.
15/Aug/2009 @ 05:07
Comment from: Eward Rudd [Visitor] · http://www.outoforder.cc
Mail client on linux have gotten pretty bad over the past few years. I've been rather disappointed. I used to use Evolution back before they broke IMAP support (and they still haven't fixed it). and thunderbird 2 was ok. But the recent changes they've done with 3 are love/hate kind of things.. I had to turn OFF the full IMAP local sync they enabled in Tbird 3.0b3. I use IMAP so I don't have to have the mail on my local system.

Maybe try disabling local mail sync and purge your ImapCache folder? that *may* make t-bird use less ram. Though I still encounter frequent "pauses" with tbird 3.0b3 on a quad core AMD with 4GB of ram.

And sylpheed/claws is rather bad.. anyone ever hear of threading!!! .
20/Aug/2009 @ 22:26
Comment from: Pascal Robert [Visitor]
You should try Mulberry. The GUI is ugly, but it have a very good IMAP client + calendar and contacts.

http://www.mulberrymail.com/
22/Aug/2009 @ 19:58
Comment from: Luigi Rosa [Visitor] · http://luigi.rosa.name
In the beginning I used Eudora (win) e pine (linux). Then I moved to TheBat (win) and finally to Thunderbird (both). Now I use thunderbird both in Linux and Windows because of the interoperability between two systems (just copy the profile directory and that's it!) and the availability of useful plugins.

As an alternative I would suggest an advanced webmail interface such as Horde or RoundCube, but you just move the memory problem from client to server.
23/Aug/2009 @ 06:15
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Ashish: pass on the gnus. I've tried it in the past, and its not something that I consider to be usable mainstream and I dont want to need to run emacs to get my emails.

Edward: One of two main reasons I use imap is for local mail cache, so i can look at emails and process / reply / send whatever i need to while being on the move or offline ( eg, commute on the London underground ). The second reason is for email to look exactly the same, irrespective of what interface / MUA is being used. So I dont want to disable local cache. Also, ThunderBird3 has fantastic offline support, and its only getting better - which is why I struggle so much with other email clients these days.

Sometime when on the move and using gprs / 3g networks for mail access, network speeds are so low, that its worth getting the local mail cache updated, and moving along to using imap in an offline mode!

23/Aug/2009 @ 08:08
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
Pascal, thanks - will look at Mulberrymail as well. I've heard of it in the past, but never followed it through to actually installing it.

Luigi: I am not a big fan of webmail, I much much prefer a proper MUA.
23/Aug/2009 @ 08:10
Comment from: Karanbir Singh [Member] Email · http://www.karan.org/
ok, so I had a look at mulberry this afternoon. No kidding thats an ugly interface. But it is very usable. And it seems really quick - however, the problem is that it does not seem to do any local cache and does not support IDLE as yet.

And another update: I've now upgraded RAM in the laptop to 2GB ( the max it will accept ). and things look much better with ThunderBird3 nightly builds. It seems to cap out at 1.4G of used ram. which leaves me with enough to actually get other things done.
23/Aug/2009 @ 10:12
Comment from: Berik [Visitor]
There's new IMAP client called Trojitá, which is based on Qt4. You can try it.
http://trojita.flaska.net/
17/Sep/2009 @ 03:37
Comment from: Lucian [Visitor]
Trojita Dependencies

"* Qt framework (>= 4.5)" - good luck with that on Centos.

I'd stick with Tb3, however there's one client that has not been mentioned yet (however weirdish it may seem):
http://sup.rubyforge.org/
I don't know how well it would work with very large inboxes.
21/Sep/2009 @ 20:58
Comment from: Ricardo J. Barberis [Visitor] · http://dattatec.com
FWIW, if you have 18G of email you may want to look at something like Manitou:

http://www.manitou-mail.org/

It uses PostgreSQL to store the email so it might be overkill to use it in a laptop but since nobody suggested it I though I would :)

Cheers
21/Oct/2009 @ 11:57

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